How to Support Your Partner Through Postpartum Depression (ft. Becca Tiell-Krekeler, Wife, Mom, Social Worker)

**Transcript is Auto-Generated**

00:00:00:13 - 00:00:22:18
Matthew Krekeler
Welcome to Girl Dad Nation. In this episode, we're going to be talking about how to support your partner through postpartum depression. So, content warning, we're going to be talking about depression, suicidality and other really heavy issues. So most of the time, podcasts try to keep them family friendly so you can listen to it with your kids in the car.

00:00:22:23 - 00:00:39:22
Matthew Krekeler
But this episode, we're going to be sharing our personal experiences. It might get heavy. So just be warned about the content of this episode.

00:00:43:05 - 00:01:07:11
Matthew Krekeler
All right, so I'm joined with my lovely wife, Becca. And first, Becca, I just want to say how appreciative I am of you and just your openness to talk about these very personal and hard things. But you actually approached me with this idea, and I think it's really great that we are able to talk about this. So tell me, what inspired you to want to share this?

00:01:08:21 - 00:01:45:23
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, I think that I was reading an article about postpartum depression in psychosis, and it was saying that so many that the numbers of women who experience it, there's like a certain a number that we have, but that that number is most likely skewed because so many women don't come forward and say that they have experienced that. And so they may not even be counted, even if they are experiencing currently or perhaps have experienced postpartum depression in the past.

00:01:46:21 - 00:02:05:14
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
So but I mean, to put the the issue of postpartum depression into context, the maternal health leadership Alliance gave a stat that said one in five women will experience a mental health disorder during pregnancy or in the first year after childbirth.

00:02:06:09 - 00:02:08:21
Matthew Krekeler
A Yeah, that's a big number.

00:02:08:21 - 00:02:49:10
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
It's a lot of women who experience that and I am counted within those. I've experienced postpartum depression with two of our pregnancies and even perinatal depression. So I experienced depression, anxiety while we were pregnant with Maggie and was treated for it. So I felt like, I don't know, it's there's a lot of anxiety about coming forward to talk about it, but I think it is really important and wanting people to know that it's okay to talk about.

00:02:49:23 - 00:03:03:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And I wanted to yeah. Just be another witness that, that it's okay to come forward and not just that it's okay to come forward, but also that it's important to come forward and important to get treatment.

00:03:04:11 - 00:03:31:17
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, well, it was something that before like we were expecting, it's something that I knew pretty much nothing about. I don't think I even really like had heard that before and I didn't know that it was something that women really deal with. And then especially how common it is, like one in five women will experience that kind of mental health disorder and it manifests itself in different ways.

00:03:31:23 - 00:04:08:15
Matthew Krekeler
So we can talk about that too. But yeah, it's a big deal. I actually I also heard about this more. I went to this amazing thing called boot camp for new dads. So I also want to plug that in this episode before we delivered our first child. There is an opportunity through the hospital that we were going to give birth, that they had this program called Boot Camp for New Dads is actually there's several of them like all across the country, which is really great.

00:04:08:21 - 00:04:34:20
Matthew Krekeler
They really expanded. But I was so grateful for that opportunity because there was so much that I didn't know as a new parent. And one of the things was just own awareness of postpartum depression. And also they shared too. How do you support your partner through this? How do you recognize the signs? How can you be an advocate for your partner?

00:04:35:16 - 00:05:18:17
Matthew Krekeler
Because unfortunately, when someone is going through that depression, it's very isolating and they often won't speak up for themselves. They might not even recognize it themselves. So yeah, as partners, we want we want to look out for those things and we have to be hyper aware and the consequences, unfortunately, they could be super drastic. And you can share a little bit about your experience later, too, but yeah, I think just by having awareness of this, we can get help and help is out there.

00:05:18:20 - 00:05:49:00
Matthew Krekeler
So if you walk away with anything from this, I want you to know that there's hope and there's help and there's a community of people that love you and support you and you don't have to go through this alone. So when did you first, like, start to have feelings of that postpartum depression or any of those kinds of struggles, either like during pregnancy or after?

00:05:49:00 - 00:06:16:22
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I think the first time around, after we had Kelly, they they tell you about it. But there's like the first couple of weeks after you deliver many women experience. Most women, I would say experience what they call the baby blues, which is of physical reaction, essentially. So your hormones are completely changing because you are creating certain hormones to keep the pregnancy viable.

00:06:16:22 - 00:06:38:04
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
So continue to grow your baby. And once your baby leaves your body, then your body changes course. And then it's, you know, making milk or, you know, it recognizes that the baby is no longer there. So it completely changes course in your hormones change drastically, which can cause a lot of emotional ups and downs. And so they called out the baby blues.

00:06:38:15 - 00:06:58:04
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
But I think that I started feeling things, feeling the postpartum depression almost immediately. I mean, I don't know if you remember this, but we we left the hospital. We got in our car like we put you know, we packed up all of our stuff. We had Kaley in the back. We were driving away and I burst into tears.

00:06:58:14 - 00:07:21:14
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I couldn't stop crying. I was so overwhelmed. I was so scared and I couldn't stop crying. And you were like, you know, like it was, you know, what should be kind of like a happy drive home. And like, here we go. We're with our baby. I couldn't stop crying. And we got home. We got something to eat. I got settled.

00:07:22:00 - 00:07:53:09
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
We saw people later. Then I started crying again. Like it was just I. I cried a lot and I didn't know why all the time. It was just kind of this feeling of being really overwhelmed. Um, and then I think for when I felt the perinatal depression, so experiencing depression, anxiety while I was pregnant and it's a little bit different than just experiencing depression when you're not pregnant.

00:07:53:09 - 00:08:23:04
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
But because I felt a lot of sadness and anxiety around the pregnancy itself, so I was overwhelmed. We we already had two kids who needed a lot from us. And we were pregnant with our third. And I felt like I felt a sense of dread. I'm like, how am I going to manage three kids, three under three and it was to the point where I like, I was crying, I cried a lot and I had just a hard time staying motivated.

00:08:23:04 - 00:08:36:15
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I felt really detached sometimes. Um, sometimes I'd have trouble sleeping. So those are just ways that it kind of manifested itself for me, especially in the beginning.

00:08:36:15 - 00:09:15:14
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. Yeah. And even now it's still like we're still have three kids, three under three year old distance four and it's a lot. And there is, there's days where yeah, you, you're just like kind of overwhelmed by all the pressure, all the expectations and all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, like looking back like four years ago, like there's so much joy and anticipation and all these kinds of things that you're like, you long for just being a parent so much and it kind of messes with you a little bit.

00:09:15:14 - 00:09:42:13
Matthew Krekeler
Like, I know sometimes it's like, well, yeah, we, we wished for this and then it's like, wow, but this is like super hard. And it doesn't mean that we don't want our kids any less, but you're like, Yeah, it is a hard thing, but yeah, could you talk a little bit about just what that was like sort of before we got pregnant and did that shape your view afterwards?

00:09:42:13 - 00:10:06:08
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, I mean, we we struggled with infertility, so we we struggled to get pregnant and there was that like that sense of longing. I was really looking forward to being pregnant. When we got pregnant, it felt like a miracle, like we were. So we were so excited, just like over the moon. Um, and overall, my pregnancy was fine.

00:10:06:08 - 00:10:24:20
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I was really sick in the beginning, but I was like, Hey, look, I, you know, I, I was so excited still, even though I was, like, vomiting a lot. And, um, and then the rest of the pregnancy was fine, but then we had kind of a traumatic delivery.

00:10:25:06 - 00:10:25:14
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah.

00:10:26:08 - 00:10:48:11
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And it didn't go the way that I had wanted it to. And I felt like I had kind of failed because I had wanted it to go a certain way, and it didn't go that way at all. Um, and I think that was kind of the beginning for me. But then when we got home with, with Kaylee, it was hard.

00:10:48:13 - 00:11:11:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Your whole life changes, and no matter how excited you are, you are not prepared for how much your life is going to change. You think you're prepared, but you're not prepared. And like you, you feel like so many things are going to be natural and they're not natural, or they don't. They they may seem natural, but they don't come easily.

00:11:12:09 - 00:11:36:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And that was really frustrating for me and I that was really what spurred so many of those intrusive thoughts was that I kept thinking to myself, I wanted this for so long, but I'm so miserable and I, I wanted this baby. I longed for this baby. But I struggle so much to take care of her. I can't figure this out.

00:11:37:03 - 00:11:59:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And I always felt like I was missing a piece. Like she would cry, and I was like, What am I doing wrong? And like, I mean, babies cry and like, that just was natural. But I and breastfeeding was really challenging to learn. And, and as a new mom, you want to do everything right. And I felt like I was doing everything wrong.

00:11:59:17 - 00:12:21:00
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And that's not that I was doing everything wrong. It's just that I felt like I was I was so overwhelmed and there was a lot of shame around. I'm like, I wanted this for so for so long. I wanted this really badly and I am really miserable. And I didn't want to admit that. It was hard to admit that to myself.

00:12:21:00 - 00:12:37:16
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
It was hard that it was hard to admit that to you. It was hard and with that to our friends and so I kind of continued to isolate myself and it kind of spiraled from there. Um.

00:12:40:11 - 00:13:07:04
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. Yeah, I think too. Did you feel that there is pressure to like as soon as you have a kid? I feel like everyone in their mother, like both of our mothers, like they are awesome moms. But everyone has an opinion on how you should be a mom or how you should be a dad. And, um, and it's totally I just want to give you permission right here.

00:13:07:06 - 00:13:47:15
Matthew Krekeler
Everyone listening to this that you have permission to accept or gracefully decline any feedback that people have because they don't know what you're going through. They might not necessarily know all of the values that you want to pass on, etc., but in the end, like you are entrusted to the child as their parent and like, you know, as long as you are doing things for the good of the child, like in your best judgment, like it's your choice.

00:13:47:15 - 00:14:21:19
Matthew Krekeler
Like you have a certain freedom in that and you will get so many different opinions. And, and I think especially it's hard on moms too, but yeah. Did you feel that pressure like from friends from like yeah. Like other people giving you advice or like just just feeling like, well, you know, if my mom was able to do this, how come I'm not, like, able to just naturally pick up certain things or whatever?

00:14:22:11 - 00:14:47:22
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, I felt like I felt like everybody else transitioned into motherhood so much better than I did. Like everyone else, I felt like, made it look so graceful that they were just so in love with their new baby. They were so in love with their new life. They were just glowing. And I felt like garbage. I felt like I looked like garbage, like because I hadn't slept.

00:14:47:22 - 00:15:13:23
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I had a hard time just like having the energy to, like, take care of myself for a lot of things. Like, I didn't look very good, but I didn't feel very good. I felt tired and overwhelmed and I was leaking milk everywhere. And it was just like I, I didn't feel like I transitioned so gracefully. And so I did feel a lot of pressure.

00:15:13:23 - 00:15:35:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Like when you go out, you need to make it look like you're happy, you need to make it look like it's flawless. You know, that you have this under control. And I think, like, not that I mean, maybe some people expect you to have it all figured out. I don't think as many people as I thought one would wanted me to have it all figured out.

00:15:35:17 - 00:15:58:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
But I felt this pressure internally that it was like, you you need to look like you have it together. You need to look like you're, you know, so in love with your baby. You're so in love with motherhood that it's just like you're glowing. You're not hurting. You're you're happy all the time. Yeah. Um, and the truth was, I was not happy all the time.

00:15:58:17 - 00:16:06:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I was. I cried a lot. Um, I didn't sleep hardly at all. I just.

00:16:06:04 - 00:16:38:19
Matthew Krekeler
I mean, the lack of sleep is so real. Like, people joke about it, but especially like when the baby's getting up, like, multiple times during the night, and then sometimes they're cluster feeding, and for our first especially, I felt like her days and nights were completely flipped and so she would be totally asleep most of the day. And then at night she would just be like wide awake and like then either one of us would have to like get up and rocker and just be up with her.

00:16:38:19 - 00:16:59:20
Matthew Krekeler
And so, I mean, I remember like there are nights where we would be up like every hour and like and then you look, look down. It's like, wow, we only got like 4 hours of sleep if that were less. And, and then that first night where we got like 3 hours of sleep in a row, it was like game changing.

00:16:59:20 - 00:17:41:18
Matthew Krekeler
It's like, what? Like now I can actually, like, function today. Yeah. Even though, like, before that we were just, you know, used to just a normal kind of sleep schedule, but you just, you have to adapt, but it's not easy. And especially like for new parents, it's like your whole world changes and that can be very shocking. Um, and then too, I just, I also want to just say, reiterate sort of what you were saying too, that a lot of times we only see the best on social media, especially everything's so curated.

00:17:42:17 - 00:18:09:05
Matthew Krekeler
Part of the podcast is just to have like real honest conversations about both the joys but also the challenges in being a parent. But yeah, I'm very conscious about like what I post and like, I don't want to post anything that's like my buy houses to a master like this didn't look quite right. So like we, we constantly are filtering in like our, the persona that we're putting out there for the world.

00:18:09:13 - 00:18:35:16
Matthew Krekeler
And I think to and I love all these people like I follow like mom blogs and stuff like that. There's people doing amazing, great things. But sometimes like you see all of these like perfectly polished sorts of parents and you're like, Wow, why am I not doing that? Why is my kid not eating like the way that this person is able to feed their kid?

00:18:35:16 - 00:18:59:14
Matthew Krekeler
All these, like, great things and all all the different things that come with with comparing yourself to these like sort of perfect parents and how they made it work. And even even I say I and most of my podcasts with there is no greater joy than being a dad and while I stand by that and I love that, and there's those moments where I'm like, yes, this is amazing.

00:18:59:14 - 00:19:21:13
Matthew Krekeler
This is why, like, I love my life and love my family and my wife and my kids. Just because there's like I say, that doesn't mean that there's also not challenge is that go at that there's that there's days where I like want to pull my hair out because my because our kids are, like, just getting on my nerves.

00:19:21:13 - 00:20:03:00
Matthew Krekeler
But, but, yeah, it's, it's a it's most important to understand those balances are. And then, yeah, I want to kind of go more into the specifics of things that you noticed thoughts that started to come up, maybe a turning point where things got from just the baby blues. And I and I do want to distinguish between the baby blues and then postpartum depression, because there is a difference and they're treated in different ways.

00:20:04:10 - 00:20:35:10
Matthew Krekeler
And like I said earlier, if it's not recognized and treated well, postpartum depression can have serious consequences. But the baby blues is also something that new dads can experience, too, because again, it's a complete life change. You aren't able to do all the things that you're accustomed to, and that can also contribute to its own sort of depression.

00:20:35:10 - 00:20:47:22
Matthew Krekeler
So but in terms of the postpartum depression side, what did you experience? Where was that shift?

00:20:47:22 - 00:21:13:18
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, I think it started with, um, started with I was like crying all the time. I felt really overwhelmed. Um, and I felt so overwhelmed that I, I couldn't leave the house by myself. Like the thought of, like, having to put Kaley in her car seat and drive somewhere. And, like, what if she had a blow out and, like, what if I couldn't clean it up?

00:21:13:18 - 00:21:33:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
What if I didn't have all the things? What if I couldn't get the stroller and, like, I became too overwhelmed to leave the house? And so then I isolated myself even more. It just became, like, a terrible cycle. Like I was too overwhelmed to leave the house, so then I would stay home all day. Then I became too sad.

00:21:33:08 - 00:22:00:12
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And then I was to leave the house because I was so sad. And so it was a vicious cycle and I think that was a big problem. And then that's because of the isolation. I think that's when a lot of the intrusive thoughts started coming in. So the intrusive thoughts are, um, that's a term that describes thoughts that you wouldn't normally have.

00:22:02:03 - 00:22:25:22
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
They might not even sound like you. They might sound kind of like someone else's talking to you. Um, but they can feel really scary. They can feel really dark. And so I started to have more intrusive thoughts around. Like, it started with thing with this thought was you're not cut out for this. Like you are just you're not cut out for this.

00:22:25:22 - 00:22:57:02
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
You, you're not stepping up to the plate. You want to do this really badly, but you're really not cut out for this. And then it turned into, oh, um, you know, Kaylee deserves so much better. She would be better off without you. Matt would be better off without you. And I had, like, weird thoughts. Like, I would tell myself that that you should you Matt, like, should leave me and, like, go marry somebody else and raise Kelly.

00:22:57:02 - 00:23:22:10
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Like, that would be so much better. And I, I mean, like this, really, like, I want to. I share that because it's like those things, those thoughts sound completely off the rail and the off the rails, but, like, completely out of left field. Like you, you have never said anything to me of, like, Kaylee deserves better that you ever wanted to leave me.

00:23:22:10 - 00:23:46:18
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
You were never disappointed in me. You never were like, Let's get a divorce so I can get remarried like you. You were always so supportive and so loving those thoughts. But those thoughts felt so real to me. Yeah. And I. I remember believing those that I'm like, Matt should just leave me, and. And he would be happier, and Kaylee would be happier for and and that would just be better.

00:23:47:08 - 00:24:20:00
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And so the more I had those intrusive thoughts, the more isolated, of course, because I was really ashamed about all of that. And then there was one night where I had been up for basically the whole night with Kelly. I was so tired. This is like probably my third or fourth night, you know, like not getting a lot of sleep and there's something about the nighttime, especially when you're up with a baby, you feel like you're the only one in the world that's awake.

00:24:20:15 - 00:24:36:00
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah. And this is about the time, like, you had gone back to work. And so I was really trying hard to be up with Kelly when I could, because I knew that you had to get up and go to work in the morning. Yeah. And I had kind of like martyred myself and I was like, I'll do it.

00:24:36:00 - 00:24:57:09
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I'll stay up all night or whatever because I'm a good mom, you know, like I wanted to, like, prove that and and I hadn't slept in days probably. And I was so tired and I was so lonely. And that's all I could think of as I was just like, it's just Kelly and I were the only ones that are awake, and I was rocking her and she wouldn't fall asleep.

00:24:57:09 - 00:25:27:15
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And I was rocking her in her nursery, which is on the second floor. And that's like what I had. The thought was, you should throw yourself out the window and that Kaylee would be better off without you and you should throw yourself out the window. And so I was rocking her. I got up, I sat her down in her cradle, looked out the window.

00:25:28:11 - 00:25:50:10
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Luckily, I turned around, walked the other direction. I came to you and I was like, I need you to be up with Kaylee. I need to go to sleep right now. Yeah. And you didn't question it. You didn't. You were just like, okay, and. And I laid down and I slept for as long as I could until I needed to feed Kayla again.

00:25:50:10 - 00:25:56:16
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
But when I woke up, I felt a little bit better. But I remembered having those thoughts, and it felt really haunting.

00:25:57:07 - 00:26:28:17
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, it's super scary. Yeah, it's like, especially as a husband listening to that, like you said, like I was like, I would never say any of the things that you imagined me thinking or saying, and especially like, you love this person and you're like, and they have thoughts of ending their life. They have thoughts that they are cut out for this aren't worthy and like it could be farther from the truth than from what I thought.

00:26:29:11 - 00:27:00:12
Matthew Krekeler
And to think about losing you is earth shattering. So like, yeah, it was incredibly, incredibly scary for me and something that like I wasn't really attuned to like I didn't know you were struggling with that until you like kind of blatantly told me. And I'm so grateful for your honesty and that because I could only imagine the worst if you didn't directly tell me.

00:27:01:01 - 00:27:17:22
Matthew Krekeler
And I think I think guys can be kind of like, you know, clueless. And sometimes, like, sometimes guys just need to be, like, told bluntly, like, this is what you need. But I appreciate you so much for doing that.

00:27:19:11 - 00:27:43:02
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, well, and I. I thought, Clyde, I finally said it even though I was, like, embarrassed, and I told you and I. I told my mom, and you were both like, it's time to call the doctor. And I did. I got in that day and was able to see somebody, and that was like immediately when I was able to, like, be treated.

00:27:43:02 - 00:28:10:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And so, I mean, that's like how quickly, like I want to give hope to people. It's like if you start to have those thoughts like the intrusive thoughts from you, like only got worse the more I didn't say anything because I had no no way to fight those intrusive thoughts. They kept they stayed in my head. And so I no one say that was like, of course, you are a good mom to Keely.

00:28:10:13 - 00:28:34:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
She's not better off without you. She needs you. I don't have anyone saying that because I didn't telling all that I had those off. So it's like they'll only continue to get worse. And when I started talking about it, people immediately were like, We need you here, Keely. Need to. And and not only like, do they need you, but it's like there's there is hope.

00:28:34:01 - 00:28:43:15
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
We're going to get like the supports that you need in place because so much of this contributes like you haven't slept in days. You need to trade off, you know, like their mothers.

00:28:43:15 - 00:29:10:00
Matthew Krekeler
Are very practical aspect to you, feeling completely tapped out. Yeah. And in little ways, whether it's like, you know, your wife comes down and the dishwasher is unloaded or like little things that are like, okay, I'm not doing everything myself. Like, like you're helping out in little ways around the house that like brings some level of normalcy, some level of order to the otherwise chaos.

00:29:10:00 - 00:29:40:16
Matthew Krekeler
When you've just been up all night trying to deal with crying or screaming or whatever and and sometimes you're like, Wow, I fed you or change your diaper. Like, why are you still crying? Like all the different things. Hum. And yeah, I think that was kind of the hardest part to wear. Like when your kids crying and you don't know why and you've tried what you think is everything and you still like haven't solved it.

00:29:40:16 - 00:30:14:03
Matthew Krekeler
Like it can just be so draining and you question yourself, I think to like one of the most harmful aspects that of those thoughts is I think it makes you question your identity from like what you said. Like that is where the attack is. It's, it's such a personal attack and who you are. And I think so many people like put their whole identity into being a mom or being a dad.

00:30:14:15 - 00:30:41:17
Matthew Krekeler
I call myself the girl that got called that podcast, A Girl That Nation. And I love that and I love that part of my identity. But I think as parents, sometimes we only see identity as that. And especially for new parents, like when you feel like, Well, this is who I am now, why am I not good? And then we say, Well, then we aren't good.

00:30:42:06 - 00:31:05:12
Matthew Krekeler
We internalize that, then we we failed. We aren't who we are made for. And I think the threat to recognize that we are made so much more than just like what society says, like a mom should be or a dad should be. Those are beautiful things. But I think that's so interesting that that's like where the attack was.

00:31:05:12 - 00:31:20:02
Matthew Krekeler
Like, you aren't good enough as a mom and then you aren't good enough as a wife. And and it's like such a personal thing that, that you feel like your whole self is completely gone.

00:31:21:16 - 00:31:55:00
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, I felt like I wasn't. I wasn't living up to the expectations of what I thought being a mother should be or like what I thought I should be doing. And therefore that meant I wasn't worthy of being loved. And that's like that's the fear. I would argue that that's the greatest fear of every human being, is that we're not worthy of being loved and and to lose the people in our life that love us.

00:31:55:00 - 00:32:23:10
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And so and that we love in return. And so I, you know, but like those intrusive thoughts, I'm like, I'm doing Haley a favor, you know, like it's like you justify to yourself because I didn't I didn't feel worthy of being loved because I wasn't living up to those expectations. And, like, the truth is, motherhood, parenthood is really hard.

00:32:23:14 - 00:32:49:14
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
No one does it perfectly. It's a mess. Most of the time I am. We're on KID three and I'm still like, What? What the heck am I doing? Like why? Like I just feel like I look at most things and I'm like, wts is going on. I just and that's okay. And I needed to like accept that some of that is okay.

00:32:49:14 - 00:33:01:04
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
It's, it's okay to lean into that imperfection. And that imperfection doesn't make you unworthy. It means that you're all stretching and growing and leaning into that.

00:33:01:13 - 00:33:01:22
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah.

00:33:03:09 - 00:33:45:03
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And there's still love through that. Perfection doesn't equal love. Yeah. So we yeah, I think there was a lot of learning, but I'll speak to a little bit to like really fast, just some other symptoms that people may see in postpartum depression and sometimes it can manifest itself as rage. And so if there's someone like if the mom is like lashing out a lot or feels really bitter just, just seems angry or irritable, like all the time.

00:33:45:13 - 00:33:47:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
That can be a sign of postpartum depression.

00:33:48:02 - 00:33:48:08
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah.

00:33:49:04 - 00:34:14:09
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Um, other signs are like having trouble sleeping or sleeping too much. So, like, insomnia, just like, constant pacing. Like, even when the baby is asleep and, like, mom should be sleeping, mom might still be up. Or. And maybe if worrying about could be a sign of postpartum depression or anxiety, um, or sleeping too much where you feel like you can't get out of bed.

00:34:14:09 - 00:34:27:22
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
All you can do is sleep. The isolation is a big thing that I experienced. Just not wanting to leave the house, really not talking to my friends, not reaching out for help, not talking really to anybody. Yeah.

00:34:28:10 - 00:34:47:13
Matthew Krekeler
I think it was especially hard too when I went back to work because like we had like two, four weeks of just being able to be home, be together. We would go for walks pretty much every day. We had a summer baby, which was really nice, so it was nice to be able to get out of the house.

00:34:47:14 - 00:35:16:11
Matthew Krekeler
Like even though we didn't really go on trips, but we would go just around our house on walks, but we would be able to spend the whole day together and, you know, share responsibility as have changing diapers and like, you know, having to clean up, split up and all those all the different kinds of normal stuff. But we we had the company of each other and we got to share and the joy and, you know, all the tasks that come with a new baby.

00:35:17:01 - 00:36:01:11
Matthew Krekeler
But then I remember like going back to work and for like full days, like I was gone for the whole day and just I felt so bad leaving you. And I feel even worse, like knowing, like, all the internal struggle that you had to. But, um, but that. But that was something. So. Yeah. So what, what are ways then that you would, you would say, like moms can get help or, or dads can like recommend things that would help or, or different ways to treat postpartum depression.

00:36:02:17 - 00:36:31:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, I so I'll start with like one of the first things if you're a new mom or a new parents, just so that for your dad, like listen to this. Like if your wife or partner is going to be having a baby. Just know, like they'll do a postpartum depression screening. It happens at the six week appointment. Um, and that's a way to screen for signs of postpartum depression.

00:36:32:02 - 00:36:59:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
That's when sometimes it's caught, sometimes it's not. Sometimes postpartum depression occurs six months after you deliver her baby. So it might not be caught on that screening, but that'll ask some questions. And that gives your provider a sense of if you might be experiencing those things, if you've had postpartum depression before. So I had it with my first child.

00:36:59:13 - 00:37:30:04
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I was treated for it. And because it was noted that I had experienced a severe form of a poster of depression, I experienced suicidal ideation, I was then flagged. So I did that postpartum screening multiple times before, like, like during pregnancy. And then after I delivered Nora and Maggie multiple. So my provider was aware that I was susceptible to postpartum depression and that it could happen again.

00:37:31:04 - 00:38:11:18
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And so being thoughtful that like your provider can be a good resource to you, that they they're going to screen for it when they can. I, I think some of the other things that have worked for me for treatment is that I started taking medication. I took a low dose of an antidepressant, and that was helpful. So I know there can be a lot of stigma around medication, but I am a proponent that if it's helpful, like it's if it was important for me an important step.

00:38:11:18 - 00:38:48:08
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
So I took that and I also saw therapists. They think that, well, as a therapist myself, I firmly believe in therapy. So I would strongly recommend to see a therapist because it's a safe space where you're able to talk about those things. And it was I felt that it was a space where I could admit a lot of the shame I had felt around the intrusive thoughts around these feelings that I had.

00:38:48:23 - 00:39:18:03
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And it was a safe space where my therapist, like we would work through that. And so if you're going to take I don't think that medication is the end all, be all. So I think medication is important and can be a really great option in conjunction with therapy. But I would strongly recommend seeing a therapist just to have that space to be able to talk about and not feel so isolated in your own head.

00:39:19:07 - 00:39:43:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And that was super important for me. I thought therapists really after the suicidal ideation, I thought therapist for six weeks and then felt a little bit better. So I transitioned out. But once the thought started coming back with the perinatal depression, I said, I need to start seeing a therapist again. I know that these thoughts are coming back.

00:39:43:01 - 00:40:19:08
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I need to put more resources into place to make sure that I feel safe. And so I started seeing a therapist again and still do, um, just to continue to have that support, that space to work through a lot of those feelings and to have techniques and uh, what is worth them looking for. But basically the therapist is able to offer suggestions and techniques and resources that can help you and have helped me to be able to manage those symptoms.

00:40:19:08 - 00:40:44:19
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
So when you're feeling sad or when you're feeling angry or when you're feeling anxious, there's a lot of things that you can do. And the therapist and I were, you know, were able to talk through those options. And it makes me feel like I have much more control, that my feelings don't control me, that I am in control of those, that when they come up, that I have options of things that I can do to help to mitigate that.

00:40:44:19 - 00:41:05:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
So that I'm not putting myself or my kids or anyone in danger if my feelings get too overwhelming. So I really I really highly recommend therapy. Again, I'm a therapist, so big proponent of it that I think it's is really important and has been extremely beneficial for me.

00:41:05:17 - 00:41:37:03
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. And I also just want to say how beneficial I think therapy is. I think to it's not just something for if your wife is struggling with postpartum depression. I think there's also benefits to as a new father to go to therapy. There's been times to where I've been able to see a therapist and it's nice to be able to talk to someone and hopefully you're able to have open communication with your spouse.

00:41:37:03 - 00:42:00:20
Matthew Krekeler
And and that's great. But to be able to talk to someone in a private setting and who kind of knows your story, especially if you've been going more regularly, you can kind of just check in too. It's nice to have someone that's just like not going to judge you, is going to be able to support you, help you get that clarity to and offer advice and support.

00:42:02:12 - 00:42:16:02
Matthew Krekeler
So yeah, I think for each person it's a really great option. So I also wanted to just say that I also support that. And then, yeah, what are some other resources?

00:42:17:09 - 00:42:36:14
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Um, I think other things. Um, I felt exercise has been a really important, um, outlet for me and for whatever works for you. If that's walking or running parties or a yoga or weightlifting.

00:42:36:14 - 00:42:48:06
Matthew Krekeler
Sometimes you're not able to always get to the gym too, which is like a whole daunting thing. Yeah. As a new parent but yeah. Plugged the resource that you years since I think that's really great.

00:42:48:15 - 00:42:54:16
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah I use this resource called mama strong and I'm a stronger.

00:42:55:02 - 00:42:55:17
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah Google.

00:42:55:17 - 00:43:12:16
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
It Google is strong and I started using it probably six months after we had Kelly and it was a game changer for me, their 15 minute workouts, which was like something that I could actually manage. I could manage an hour long workout as a parent, so.

00:43:12:17 - 00:43:14:13
Matthew Krekeler
And it's led by a mom, led.

00:43:14:15 - 00:43:14:19
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
By.

00:43:15:01 - 00:43:18:14
Matthew Krekeler
Shift. It has like her kids like exercising in the background with her.

00:43:18:15 - 00:43:23:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah. Like her toddler like climbs all over her and stuff. And I was like, yeah, that's basically my life too.

00:43:23:01 - 00:43:28:21
Matthew Krekeler
So it's like more real life than like, you know, some, like, single 20 year old, like, here's how to, like.

00:43:29:04 - 00:43:30:12
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Exercise, right?

00:43:30:17 - 00:43:54:11
Matthew Krekeler
And yeah, so I think that's really great. And I've noticed a difference just in you feeling more motivated and, and also like practical things like you don't have to exercise for an hour like. It's like, what can you do in your day? And then even like with your kids, with you and I know like and or I like or sometimes like, follow along with the exercises that you're doing.

00:43:54:15 - 00:44:16:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Yeah, like climb on me while I do planks and stuff. But with mom is strong that those are, those things are welcomed. Which made me feel like I was welcomed into the space of working out even though my life looks so different than when I was in high school or when in like in college when I was an athlete and I was working out all the time like there's.

00:44:16:21 - 00:44:18:08
Matthew Krekeler
And you're able to get to the gym.

00:44:18:11 - 00:44:21:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it.

00:44:21:13 - 00:44:22:03
Matthew Krekeler
Varies.

00:44:22:03 - 00:44:49:03
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
But now. Yeah. So I really recommend Mom is strong. And there's also just like lots of YouTube videos and resources that are free to do but really recommend. And exercise is a wonderful way to and it doesn't have to be anything drastic. You don't have to push yourself too hard, just ways that you move, your body gives you endorphins, helps you to feel just a little bit more settled, I think, in your body.

00:44:49:03 - 00:45:15:00
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And I always felt much more grounded, healthy to work through some of the feelings of I'm overwhelmed or I'm frustrated or, you know, all those things. So I really I think exercise has been huge for me. Um, and I'd say to like this time around I'm seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist that's also just really beneficial for me.

00:45:15:00 - 00:45:47:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Physically healing after labor and delivery after giving birth. Three times. So that as a resource has been really cool and I felt so much better physically, which I think has helped me to feel better emotionally. And I think the last thing I'd say is that you should make a list. Every mom should have a list of friends, family that they can call, and if they need something or if they just want to talk.

00:45:47:19 - 00:46:19:15
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And you would be surprised how many of your friends and family will immediately say you can call any time and they really mean it. And I think it's not just like a nice like, oh, they call me if you need anything. It's people really do mean it, especially if you have friends that are also moms. And I mean, I will just illustrate this with a quick story, but my provider, my doctor said they were the ones that recommended he make your list of people that you can call.

00:46:19:15 - 00:46:42:21
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And so I was like texting my friends, was calling my friends. I'm like, is it okay if I put you on my list? And I felt kind of shame, shameful about it. I was so embarrassed. I was like, Can I put you on this list that I have to make? I told my doctor I would and it started to get around, was passed around through all my friends, and I was getting texts and phone calls and they were like, Put me on your list, put me on your list.

00:46:43:07 - 00:46:59:23
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
The you can call anytime and people and you know, my friends were like you. I really mean it. You call any time, day or night. If you're up in the middle of the night and you are feeling sad or you're feeling those thoughts again, you call me and you know, my family said the exact same thing. They're like, I'm on your list.

00:47:00:06 - 00:47:04:11
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And it was like I had a list of speed. We kept it on our refrigerator.

00:47:04:19 - 00:47:09:00
Matthew Krekeler
I think that's empowering. Yeah. To know that you have people in your corner.

00:47:09:06 - 00:47:36:06
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Oh, yeah, it was. It meant everything to me and I felt it. Well, it made the world that isolated world that I had created for myself, where I was the only person in it. And I was so alone and I was suffering so much. It expanded it so much. So people were like, We're here for you. And I felt so lifted up by that that it didn't feel so hard anymore.

00:47:36:06 - 00:47:58:20
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
The burden didn't feel so heavy. It felt like I had people that I could talk to and all of my friends without feel, completely normalize my experience. Nobody made me feel like, Wow, that's kind of crazy. You're kind of crazy. No one said anything. They were like through like, Becca, motherhood is so hard and we all have to just, like, get through this together, like.

00:47:59:07 - 00:48:23:18
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And like when I told them that I had those thoughts of, like, everyone else just made it look like they transitioned into motherhood so easily. All of my friends laughed. They were like, ha ha. Like, they were like, seriously? Like, like, that's funny that that's what you thought because that's not what it felt like. And so to have so many people around, me, who were like, We're here for you, we're in the trenches with you and we're holding you up during this time.

00:48:23:18 - 00:48:43:13
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
You can call any time. And so I kept that list. I still have that list. And after we delivered Nora After we delivered Maggie, I had my friends that they checked in with me. They're like, Do you still have your list? You were over, you can call me and so make your list and know that people will show up for you.

00:48:45:03 - 00:49:13:21
Matthew Krekeler
I think that's such a great gift that you can offer someone else to is to just let them know that they can call you or text you any time too, that you are there for them. And that's so important. And that's that's one of the things that I love about doing a podcast like this is to like, really like expand your community and also like bring those people in closer that, you know, we all are struggling with all these different things.

00:49:13:21 - 00:49:55:23
Matthew Krekeler
But to know that you have someone that's been there that can offer you advice or encouragement or just to be like, yeah, like like I'm here just to listen. It's so amazing to have that. And then one other resource that I just want to jump in and add is the meal train options too. If you don't know what that is, it's basically just a way that people come together as a community and bring meals to a family, and it can be for a variety of different reasons, like sometimes families going through like a loss or a tragedy or something like that, hard or a new life transition to like someone just moved or whatever.

00:49:55:23 - 00:50:17:09
Matthew Krekeler
But like having those meal trains that you can provide and you can set that up too for a new family, if you know of a new dad on offer to make them a meal train and you can just go online, Google Meals train and you can set one up for free and people can sign up to just bring a meal to the family.

00:50:17:09 - 00:50:35:18
Matthew Krekeler
I know we had that done for us. And again, I was just overwhelmed by the generosity and the willingness of our friends and family to, like, just bring us a meal. And in the chaos of everything else, it's so nice to just be like, Oh, here's a hot meal that's ready for us at the end of the day.

00:50:35:18 - 00:50:57:17
Matthew Krekeler
And you wouldn't believe, like how fast the days go by. Remember, it's like, you know, even though you're home all day, sometimes it's like 8:00 hits and you're like, Wow, we haven't even like thought about dinner because we've been doing literally everything else. So that's another really nice resource that you can provide to just offering that support.

00:50:57:23 - 00:51:42:20
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
Definitely. So I think I because it's the Girl Destination podcast, I've shared a little bit of this story from my point of view, but I think it's important that you share ways, maybe start with things that you noticed. So things that you can address that I might be experiencing postpartum depression, but also things that you would encourage dads to support their partners with, perhaps things you've done or would have done differently, but just ways that dads and could show up for their partners if they might be if their partner might be experiencing this.

00:51:43:10 - 00:52:09:05
Matthew Krekeler
Sure. Yeah. I'll explain a little bit of my experience, but I'm not an expert unless there's so much that I probably should have done differently and would have done differently thinking back on it now. But I think, you know, you are going to know your partner hopefully better than anyone else, but that doesn't mean that you will always recognize those signs right away.

00:52:09:18 - 00:52:48:06
Matthew Krekeler
So one of the things to do is to let other people know in your community like to have an awareness to also look for those signs. So we have some really good friends that, like I talked about that with where it's like, yeah, like let me know if these are the things that I learned about postpartum depression. Like, I want you to also be looking out for these things, make me aware because sometimes like you also are super tired, you're not getting enough sleep and you just think all of these new emotions are kind of normal.

00:52:48:06 - 00:53:29:19
Matthew Krekeler
So having other people too, it's really important to ask for that. And then but also, you know, people are a little bit different. So, you know, if your partner's more of an introvert, they might just naturally want to gravitate to being kind of, you know, more private, staying at home and stuff. But yeah, just notice those differences, those drastic shifts in personality because if they're normally like an outgoing person and they're always like thinking of the next thing to do on the weekend, but then they're having a really hard time doing those normal kind of things.

00:53:29:19 - 00:53:59:07
Matthew Krekeler
Or like if your partner is normally like very active and like has been going to the gym or at least working out and they like suddenly have a disinterest in those things that normally bring them joy. Those would be signs to look for. And it's also really important to you to plan date nights or even if you're not going out to plan intentional time together, even if it's at home for just a couple of hours while you put the baby to bed.

00:54:00:15 - 00:54:29:04
Matthew Krekeler
But those times where it's just you and your partner able to really have time, meaningful time together to talk and to just be honest with each other. And you could talk about those hard things. You can share. And sometimes the vulnerability of one partner leads to vulnerability in the other. So it's okay as a new dad to be like, you know, this is a lot harder than I thought and to be like, Yeah, I'm completely overwhelmed.

00:54:30:03 - 00:55:05:06
Matthew Krekeler
And or I got like this piece of advice that, like, didn't make me feel good. And to share those things kind of gives permission for the other to open up. So that's one way to sort of increase the conversation. But I think the best thing you can do is to keep that communication open and make sure that they know that it's a safe space that you can share these things, especially when it's difficult, especially when like it's serious, especially thoughts of suicide or anything like that.

00:55:05:23 - 00:55:37:21
Matthew Krekeler
Those things shouldn't be kept to yourself. You need that support group. You need to be able to rely on your partner. So yeah, that's just a couple of things I would say and I unfortunately wasn't quick enough on that as I should have been. I should have been picking up on those things and encouraging that support, encouraging you to go to therapy sooner or like talking with your doctor about those things.

00:55:39:14 - 00:56:03:17
Matthew Krekeler
Like I wish that I would have acted sooner, but I'm so grateful that you told me when you did. And then at that moment we like jumped into action. It's important to take those things seriously because so often it's just too easy to just be like, Oh, that's fine. It's just just something that you're going through now. It's something that you'll get over.

00:56:03:17 - 00:56:23:00
Matthew Krekeler
And if you have that mentality, unfortunately, it could have really drastic consequences. So yeah, any last bits of advice or encouragement for people before we wrap up this episode?

00:56:23:00 - 00:56:57:06
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I would say that for new moms or veteran moms, wherever you're at, that it's really motherhood is really hard and I think it's okay to say that and I was always afraid to say that. And I, I wanted to look like I was so grateful, you know, that everything was rainbows and butterflies. But the truth is, is that it's not and that it's really hard and you give a lot as a mom.

00:56:58:00 - 00:57:23:18
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And so remember that it's okay to admit that sometimes things are hard and that you are also worthy of love. You're worthy of being taking care of yourself and to ask for that help when you need it and to not feel shame around that. So there's there is help out there. And so perhaps if you're not close with your family, perhaps you might have friends that you can lean on.

00:57:24:09 - 00:57:45:17
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
But the first step is to really ask for help. And don't be afraid to do that. And I, I have fallen into the trap of being too embarrassed to ask for help that like I should. I should know better. You know, I should. I should be able to handle this. But that thing of it takes a village. It's true.

00:57:45:17 - 00:58:14:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
It does. It takes a lot of people. One tiny human or many tiny humans. It takes a lot of hard work. And so reach out for that hope and know that it's okay and that your loved you're doing an awesome job and I'm rooting for you. I'm out here. Have to say, like, hey, all moms, they're they're working hard, they're the best.

00:58:14:01 - 00:58:31:05
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
And I know it's always meant a lot to me when moms, you know, catch me in the grocery store and my kids are, like, having a total meltdown and I'm like, about ready to have a total meltdown. And moms come up to me and they're like, You're doing a great job. This is hard. And I could have burst into tears.

00:58:31:05 - 00:58:56:01
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I was so grateful. Just we all need to support each other. So I. I'm rooting for you. And just remember that you. You are doing everything. You're doing everything that you can. So I can I end with one last thing I like. Yeah, of course. Kind of ranted, but I have.

00:58:56:07 - 00:58:59:01
Matthew Krekeler
No that's great. I think that's all really great advice.

00:58:59:18 - 00:59:30:00
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
There was just like this caption just like from my Instagram, but I, I read these words and it's from Tallulah. Alexandra that's the, the person on Instagram who wrote this. But I held on to these words and I often read them when I'm having a hard time. But she says becoming a new mother is incredibly overwhelming from exactly how you are supposed to do things to when they are supposed to happen.

00:59:30:08 - 00:59:49:12
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
There are pieces of the puzzle that are new and unfamiliar and seem to me to be completely out of reach while I'm still a new mom and will be able to claim that title for a while. I've persevered through every turn. Whenever I thought I couldn't go on any longer. I went on whenever I thought that I wasn't capable of something.

00:59:49:12 - 01:00:07:21
Rebecca Tiell-Krekeler
I did it anyway. Whenever my baby has needed me, I've been there very beautiful. So that has really carried me through. And so reminding yourself of that, that even when things have been hard, you've shown up and when your baby has needed you, you have been there.

01:00:08:16 - 01:00:32:14
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, that's so important. Just having the courage. Just keep showing up. Keep showing up. Like that's. That's all that's asked, you know? It's like, just keep doing the best that you can and your best is good enough. So thank you so much, Becca. Thank you for having these conversations. I love being married to you. I love raising kids with you.

01:00:33:10 - 01:00:51:05
Matthew Krekeler
And yeah, I hope that these conversations, just that vulnerability will be able to help others know that they're not alone. So thank you so much, guy.

01:00:51:05 - 01:00:57:07

Dad as a you guy.

01:00:58:15 - 01:01:27:18
Matthew Krekeler
All right. So that wraps up this episode of How to Support Your Partner through postpartum depression. Heavy topic, you know, but there's resources out there. I want to also just give some resources for people. There's the postpartum support international and yeah, just Google that. You can also go to postpartum.net. That's their website and you can find their hotline on the website and I'll put a link to it in the description.

01:01:28:17 - 01:02:01:05
Matthew Krekeler
So that's a great resource. There's also a hotline for suicide and Crisis Lifeline, so if you or someone you know is dealing with a crisis or thoughts of suicide, please, please take the initiative and make that call. It's serious. You are important. You are important enough, you are loved and make sure that you get help. That number for that hotline is 988 for the suicide hotline and yeah.

01:02:01:05 - 01:02:19:23
Matthew Krekeler
So please share this episode if it has been meaningful to you or if you know someone who would benefit from this. I really, really appreciate the support of all of our community to our family and friends who have been with us. Thank you for all that you do. And until next time, go be a dad.