Dad of All Trades (ft. Jon Ekstrom, Jon of All Trades Podcast)

**Transcript is Auto-Generated**

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:21:07
Matthew Krekeler
Welcome to Girl Dad Nation. In this episode, I welcome John Ekstrom, dad to Grace and Sloane, who are eight and six. John is a communications professional in the Denver area. His flagship podcast is titled Jon of All Trades, which has over 340 episodes. We talk about life as girl dads, inspiring our daughters to be whatever they dream to be.

00:00:21:15 - 00:00:33:07
Matthew Krekeler
Embracing the underdog story.

00:00:36:21 - 00:00:38:06
Matthew Krekeler
Well, Jon, welcome to the show.

00:00:39:00 - 00:00:41:15
Jon Ekstrom
Thank you, Matthew. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for reaching out.

00:00:42:04 - 00:01:05:15
Matthew Krekeler
It's awesome to have you. You're a professional podcaster and I'm kind of new to the whole podcast world, but it's awesome. I got to listen to some of your podcast. I first discovered Jon of All Trades, which I thought was super clever. Play on Jack of All Trades. And yeah, you're from Denver. You get to interview a lot of awesome people doing a variety of different things around the Denver world.

00:01:05:16 - 00:01:19:20
Matthew Krekeler
I'm a huge Avalanche fan, so hearing him the voice of the avalanche everyday. Yeah. Connor McGehee Yeah. For Avalanche Radio. And then I had Kyle Keefe on the podcast. He's also a girl dad, so it was awesome interviewing him.

00:01:20:08 - 00:01:23:08
Jon Ekstrom
I listened to that one. And Connor is such a cool guy, too.

00:01:24:05 - 00:01:47:17
Matthew Krekeler
Oh, sweet. Yeah. So you have two girls, and I wanted to first just ask you about that journey of becoming a dad, because I read a blog and a great blog article that you wrote just about that story. It wasn't always an easy road from what I read. So yeah, can it kind of share your story?

00:01:48:03 - 00:02:12:05
Jon Ekstrom
Okay, so Matthew, the the journey to becoming a dad was it was fraught. So I met my wife in graduate school, like we met in 2004. We got married in 2009 and it was run around, I want to say probably 2012 when we we decided like, hey, let's expand this team a little bit more. Yeah, you know, we make a good team.

00:02:12:05 - 00:02:38:01
Jon Ekstrom
Let's build the team out a little further. And we just sort of tried naturally for a while and it wasn't taking it wasn't happening. So we ended up going to an infertility clinic and got our workup done. You know, like nothing was obviously wrong with either of us, but, you know, they gave me, like, a cocktail of vitamins to take to increase sperm count, you know, help, motility, all that kind of stuff.

00:02:38:02 - 00:03:01:10
Jon Ekstrom
There were some things that she did to help her. She had a bunch of invasive tests. My tests, by contrast, were a lot more fun, if a little bit surreal. Yeah. And I'll leave it at that in the name of decorum here. But so as part of that journey, we decided to do some eyes. And are you familiar with the term Iowa?

00:03:02:14 - 00:03:07:10
Matthew Krekeler
I'm not like I also know like IVF and stuff like that. What's Iowa?

00:03:07:14 - 00:03:33:03
Jon Ekstrom
So IVF is when you take fertilized embryos and you implant them directly into the uterus. Hopefully hoping that they'll attach in Iowa is basically it's called an intrauterine insemination. And what that is, is they take your sperm sample. And then I liken it to a fantasy draft. They take the 19 million or so strongest swimmers, watch them, get them optimize.

00:03:33:03 - 00:03:52:14
Jon Ekstrom
I don't know exactly how the science works, but and then they implant it right into your wife's cervix. So basically you're short circuiting some of the process and you're basically putting into the fallopian tube like a ton of swimmers without any of the. Yeah, you know, you're basically short.

00:03:52:15 - 00:03:53:15
Matthew Krekeler
Like the dream team.

00:03:54:03 - 00:04:18:16
Jon Ekstrom
Right? Right. Yes, the dream team. And you also eliminate a bunch of highway that they have to travel, essentially. Yeah. And so we did that that I mean, and when you go through infertility treatments, none of that is covered by insurance. It's all wildly expensive. Each Iwai costs about 1500 to 2 grand if memory serves. Wow. And we had four failed ones.

00:04:19:18 - 00:04:43:06
Jon Ekstrom
And so at the end of the fourth failed one, which was in December of 2013, we go, you know what we're calling a moratorium here? We're like, no more talking about this with infertility. Does a number on your marriage? It does a number on your psyche. It does a number on your finances. Yeah. It's it's one of the harder things that you'll go through as a couple.

00:04:44:04 - 00:05:00:22
Jon Ekstrom
And so we go let's just take a break and we went down to Mexico like for a few days and we said, okay, you know what, we're not going to talk about this for six months. And at the end of that six months, we're going to explore three options. One is IVF. Like Let's learn what we can about.

00:05:00:22 - 00:05:24:08
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah, let's talk about that too. Was adoption. Let's look at that. Let's figure out what the options are there. Let's see how that looks. And three is let's consider just being childless bohemians because we had a bunch of friends who they lived like that. They seemed perfectly happy and fulfilled. And we go, But you know what? We're not in the headspace to make a decision in any of these three lanes at all.

00:05:25:02 - 00:05:46:23
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah. So unbeknownst to me, I go, okay, well, you know what? Fine, that's great. I love it. My wife was making sure we were hitting the bull's eyes when she was ovulating. I didn't know that and she didn't tell me. And God bless her for that, because it's like if you were surreptitiously doing this, then I would have gotten inside my own head and we have the same, you know, the same kind of issues.

00:05:47:22 - 00:05:58:16
Jon Ekstrom
But spontaneously and here's the other thing. When you take when you do Iowa is she's on a bunch of like hormones and stuff. So have you ever heard of Clomid?

00:06:00:10 - 00:06:01:07
Matthew Krekeler
I don't think so.

00:06:01:16 - 00:06:25:08
Jon Ekstrom
Okay. Clomid is a drug that increases fertility, but it also it's a hormone increase her. So basically it makes her very, very emotional. And Clomid is it's a weird thing, but those drugs stay in your system for a long time, so you become super fertile. It was in February that it was crazy. Our cat Finnegan, we were just like hanging out one day we were laying in bed.

00:06:25:08 - 00:06:31:05
Jon Ekstrom
We're getting ready to go do whatever it was we were going to do that day. I think we're actually going to sell the crib that day. Yeah.

00:06:31:05 - 00:06:39:10
Matthew Krekeler
You had invested like you're like, okay, we're going to start a family. You had invested in a crib, you created a nursery space, I assume?

00:06:39:19 - 00:06:50:04
Jon Ekstrom
Not. Not quite that, yeah. Like we had the stuff, but we didn't want to. Like when you're trying to get pregnant to depending on who you are, you're not exactly advertising that.

00:06:51:02 - 00:07:04:11
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, sure. So it's just a personal thing between Apple. So yeah. And so on the reverse side to you get a lot of people like especially if you've been married for a couple of years, get a lot of people that are like, okay, so when are you going to have kids?

00:07:04:11 - 00:07:04:19
Jon Ekstrom
Oh yeah.

00:07:04:19 - 00:07:28:18
Matthew Krekeler
They never know whether it's your parents or whatever or friends that have kids already. You're like, All right, so you kind of get that pressure, and especially if you've been dealing with it, kind of a silent struggle. Yeah, like that can be really, like, hard to hear that because it's not like you're not open to that. But when it's something that you've been struggling with, like hearing those kinds of voices from people.

00:07:29:11 - 00:07:34:06
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, it, it makes it so much more personal, like, well, I'm doing something wrong and right.

00:07:34:13 - 00:07:56:07
Jon Ekstrom
Well, thankfully, I guess I need to do this is thankful. But I was born in 1981. My parents went through like a decade of infertility where they had me spontaneously and I mean, they were on adoption lists. They were all set to go in a different direction. And so they were very understanding and very sympathetic to what they're going through because they went through it in the 1970s.

00:07:57:00 - 00:08:19:12
Jon Ekstrom
I mean, you can only imagine how awful it was back then because, you know, science continues to advance. And so 40 years later, it becomes better and a little bit more understanding. And the stories that they would tell me were just horrifying and show me to my core to this day. But with all that said, we started to look at this crib as like a hex.

00:08:19:12 - 00:08:40:05
Jon Ekstrom
You know, it's like we brought a damn curse on our house. Yeah. And our cat Finnegan just walks across Kristen's stomach and does that weird cat thing. So, like, you know, when they're smelling something that they're really interested in and they open their mouth. And so things just sitting there like this, like, and we go, What the hell is he doing?

00:08:40:11 - 00:08:59:10
Jon Ekstrom
I'm like, Maybe, maybe you are pregnant. And he smelled her belly and was very, very weird about it, almost like something's in here that was not here before. Yeah. And so, you know, she went and got tested. It was I think it was the next day and it turned out she was pregnant. Man, I didn't know what to do with myself.

00:09:00:05 - 00:09:19:15
Jon Ekstrom
Because you think it's over and you think it's never going to happen. It's for me, it's a lot like winter, you know, because, like, I feel like winter never ends and I hate the winter. And so, you know, I keep waiting for summer. I was under the belief that this was never going to happen. But then it finally did.

00:09:20:05 - 00:09:44:15
Jon Ekstrom
And we waited until we got like 20 weeks or so. I think it was not maybe not 20, I think it was 12 that we finally decided we were safe enough to tell people. And we did. And because I'd written about it so much, I if you go on my website John of all trades dot us there's a tab under there that says our infertility story and there's a lot of off color language.

00:09:44:15 - 00:09:46:16
Jon Ekstrom
I'm very blunt in my communication style.

00:09:47:11 - 00:09:53:04
Matthew Krekeler
I love that it is to a sense. It's like, yeah, you're just open to the reality of what you're going through.

00:09:53:16 - 00:10:17:17
Jon Ekstrom
Well, and what's funny is the act of writing about that. I had people come out of the woodwork to come talk to me. They're like, Yeah, we go through this too. But, you know, it's it feels so isolating when you go through infertility. You feel like you're the only one on earth doing it. So when you open yourself up in the way that I did, it tends to allow people a space and they come to you because it's like, Oh my God, someone like they get it, right?

00:10:17:17 - 00:10:29:00
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah. And so like, what a relief. And then that pregnancy went really, really well. Grace was born in October, and yeah, we were off and running from there.

00:10:29:16 - 00:10:54:05
Matthew Krekeler
And was there a moment, too, where you like you find out, but you're skeptical like like that false hope, I think. Like like I've been there where like you've kind of wanted something for so long, you've kind of gotten comfortable at a certain point with, like, the alternative that you're kind of like, okay, I don't know if this is like, if I should believe this fully.

00:10:54:05 - 00:11:15:14
Matthew Krekeler
And then, yeah, once you reach that like 12 week part because other people also struggle with miscarriages and there's like there's a whole lot of things like it just, it's so amazing. I think like that anyone comes into the world with all the craziness that it takes, all of all of the bad things that could happen that just like to be here.

00:11:15:14 - 00:11:20:06
Matthew Krekeler
And it's just like it's such a good reminder of just like, the beauty of life. And at that point.

00:11:20:14 - 00:11:41:20
Jon Ekstrom
It's, it's incredible. I find it overwhelming. And what I'll tell you is that when you go through infertility and you have your infertility doctors, you get like way more ultrasounds than you get. You know, under normal circumstances. So the first time we went in there, I remember the doctor, like showed us the heartbeat and it was this tiny, tiny little flutter on the monitor.

00:11:42:07 - 00:12:09:12
Jon Ekstrom
And I'm like, Whoa, no way. Like this tiny, little, almost microscopic organism, like, is going to grow into a real person. It was mind blowing to me. And yeah, like, I was changed in that moment and think, I mean, thinking about it now, I'm even getting a little misty. But at that point I was still pretty guarded in my feelings because like you said, I know there's a lot that can happen between now and then.

00:12:10:00 - 00:12:35:00
Jon Ekstrom
And I remember they pulled. So Grace is a little stinker. And it was at 35 weeks of pregnancy that she just decided to flip breech. And yeah, she was head down the whole time. She woke up my wife in the middle of the night and actually like, because she could feel her turn, she's like, Oh, God, like, what is that like?

00:12:35:05 - 00:12:59:00
Jon Ekstrom
You know, because they're big at that point. Mm hmm. And so she turned to and we went in for our next appointment. She goes, Yep, she's breech. You're going to have to schedule a C-section. And, Matthew, I'll tell you one thing. It's one thing to pick someone's name. You really want to feel like God pick their birthday. What?

00:12:59:01 - 00:13:21:02
Jon Ekstrom
Like, that's weird. It's like you will be born on this day. Yeah. So we picked and it was the earliest C-section appointment we could get on Monday morning. And we just, we drove to the hospital like 530 and you kind of wait. And then she was born at 7:56 a.m.. This is why statistically most babies are born at 8 a.m..

00:13:21:08 - 00:13:23:04
Jon Ekstrom
It's because of planned C-sections like this.

00:13:23:04 - 00:13:23:14
Matthew Krekeler
Really?

00:13:23:23 - 00:13:46:08
Jon Ekstrom
Okay. So there's a little bit of trivia for you. Yeah, but they pulled her out and they held her up and she looked kind of like me. And I go, No way. Like, how is that possible? Like, she didn't look exactly like me, but enough that I recognized, like, I could see myself in her. Yeah. And I go, geez, like, as crazy man.

00:13:46:08 - 00:14:00:18
Matthew Krekeler
I kind of had a slightly different first reaction. So my wife had natural births, or at least like the first one. She had an epidural and then she went unmedicated for the second time, which was amazing.

00:14:01:04 - 00:14:05:11
Jon Ekstrom
Oh, my God. I mean, compare and contrast those.

00:14:05:11 - 00:14:21:03
Matthew Krekeler
But yeah, and we share our birth story on our other podcast episode. So, and then well, we haven't done an episode just yet on the third one, but I'm hoping to kind of share that story too. It's like each time is different.

00:14:21:09 - 00:14:21:18
Jon Ekstrom
Oh yeah.

00:14:22:09 - 00:14:43:08
Matthew Krekeler
And then every parent has their own story. But I remember like you kind of like prepare as much as you can. I remember them pulling out my oldest daughter and she was like bright purple. And I was like, and I just wasn't, like, anticipating that. And I was like, I've had, like, she's she's like, you say this, she's yours.

00:14:43:08 - 00:15:02:20
Matthew Krekeler
And you're like, she's beautiful. But I'm also like, she kind of looks like an alien. She's just got this like a c super like purple and stuff, and that was it. And then like, you know, several minutes go by and like she your color kind of comes in and stuff. But I was like babies, like the amount of process that they go through and the pressure that they're under like.

00:15:03:01 - 00:15:03:10
Jon Ekstrom
Wild.

00:15:03:10 - 00:15:18:06
Matthew Krekeler
Birth and everything was, was crazy. But then, yeah, I remember that moment like I maybe you had a similar moment, like, they bring the baby over to, like, the warming table.

00:15:18:08 - 00:15:18:16
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah.

00:15:18:20 - 00:15:37:13
Matthew Krekeler
And my wife is still getting treatment, so then I'm just with the baby, which is awesome. And she is crying, of course. But then I, like, stick out my pinky and she can, like, grab on to my pinky and I am just talking to her and that just my voice calm her down.

00:15:37:13 - 00:15:38:15
Jon Ekstrom
Oh, the same thing happened to me.

00:15:38:15 - 00:15:39:16
Matthew Krekeler
It's amazing. Yeah.

00:15:39:17 - 00:16:00:09
Jon Ekstrom
Oh, God, what a moment. And the other thing I'll tell you is, so they picked her up from the it almost looks like one of those like hotel, like catering, chafing dishes that they kind of put them in. And so they lift her up so that they can wear. And as soon as they lift her up, she just peed right in the tray and they go, Well, hey, that's good.

00:16:00:09 - 00:16:15:12
Jon Ekstrom
So, like, you want their plumbing to work properly and so they lifted her up. But when they, when they, they changed the blanket, but they put her back down and I held on to her and yet she calmed down and yeah, that's that's a real moment. That's a life moment.

00:16:15:12 - 00:16:23:21
Matthew Krekeler
That's awesome. And I've kind of been doing an unofficial poll, but did you guys find out the gender before or did you wait for it to be a surprise?

00:16:23:21 - 00:16:48:05
Jon Ekstrom
Not a surprise. We went to no surprises. We yeah. We wanted to know right away. We did that with both of them. We we didn't. I mean, the day is going to be filled with enough emotion to where I sure I didn't want it to be like I mean, this is sort of an imprecise comparison, but I didn't want to have like Schrodinger's baby, you know what I mean?

00:16:48:11 - 00:17:08:00
Jon Ekstrom
Because, like, here's the other thing that someone told us. When you find out the gender of your child beforehand, you will mourn for the child. You're not having a little bit. And so, like, that's an emotional thing. It's like I was so excited to have a girl. Like, we both wanted a girl, but it's like, Oh, I'm not going have a son.

00:17:08:00 - 00:17:22:05
Jon Ekstrom
And so you more than that a little bit. And like, that's a lot of emotion to add on top of what you're already going through in that room. So for us, the calculus was easy and it was never even a debate. It's like, Yeah, tell us as soon as you can answer.

00:17:22:20 - 00:17:29:21
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. And then yeah. Going back to the crib story, like how did that round out how you had the crib at that point?

00:17:30:08 - 00:17:51:02
Jon Ekstrom
We did. We kept it. We were going to sell it to her mom, who lived in Highlands Ranch at the time, and she's like, Oh, I can sell that real easy down here. I'll just put it on like this Facebook group and it would be gone kind of day. We go, great. So she was going to buy it from us and sell it, but because we suspected Kristen was pregnant, we ultimately held on to it.

00:17:51:02 - 00:17:54:21
Jon Ekstrom
So that was the crib that both our girls ended up sleeping in.

00:17:54:21 - 00:18:00:03
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. And then so. Yeah, now flash forward, they're eight and six.

00:18:01:01 - 00:18:01:12
Jon Ekstrom
That's right.

00:18:01:12 - 00:18:26:14
Matthew Krekeler
So yeah. What is there like a particular age range that you would say was like, I don't know if this is a fair question, but like, you're you're kind of favorite age, like to see changes in them or the way that you developed as a dad. Like if you could say like by this age, I felt like I was at this point in my dad.

00:18:27:11 - 00:18:28:02
Matthew Krekeler
So I don't.

00:18:28:02 - 00:18:49:16
Jon Ekstrom
Know. Interesting question because it took us so long to have grace that we're like, okay, we're going to wait like a year and let's start trying again because it'll probably be another like two or three years before this takes again. Yeah. And so, you know, when we decide we're act like and here's, here's the thing that always bothers me.

00:18:49:16 - 00:19:14:22
Jon Ekstrom
It's like, well, we're not trying but we're not not trying. It's like, no nonsense unless you've got the barriers up you're trying or you're just fooling yourself. And so we decided like, okay, we're going to be trying again. And on the first try, Kristin's pregnant again and she wasn't quite mentally prepared to be pregnant again. And I go, Oh dear, we're going to have to now.

00:19:16:11 - 00:19:27:07
Jon Ekstrom
And I'm like, I was not quite ready for that either. Just I mean, it was it was awfully quick. Grace is a year old. You know, we're still fresh into this. And, I mean, you know all about this.

00:19:27:20 - 00:19:29:17
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, but I can relate.

00:19:30:07 - 00:19:53:18
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah, very much so from what you've told me. And so it was when Kristin was pregnant and she had a really, really rough pregnancy with Sloan, which includes at 25 weeks, having a bucket handle, tear of her meniscus in her right knee. Wow. Where it flipped into her knee, too. So she had have knee surgery while 25 weeks pregnant.

00:19:53:18 - 00:20:15:11
Jon Ekstrom
And that's a whole ordeal at the hospital, too. Wow. So ultimately, she was awake when they when they cut her knee open. So they gave her a spinal like you would if she was having a C-section. So like because you can't put the baby under general anesthesia if you put mom under, then the baby goes under. That's really unsafe for a fetus.

00:20:15:11 - 00:20:37:22
Jon Ekstrom
So she is like a billion times tougher than I am having knee surgery while awake and pregnant. So during that time and she's just very, very sick. Like morning sickness was almost the entire pregnancy and not just morning, but like all day. She felt terrible. She's hobbling around on this bum knee. So Grace at this point is like a year and a half old.

00:20:38:12 - 00:20:53:12
Jon Ekstrom
And I because at this point we both work for ourselves. I have a lot of flexibility in my schedule. And so I was able to like take her out and go to parks and go to the pool and stuff. So when she was like a year and a half, she was my little buddy. She was just my little like copilot.

00:20:53:23 - 00:20:55:14
Matthew Krekeler
Like, That's awesome.

00:20:55:14 - 00:21:29:15
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah. Yeah. And so that was really, really fun because people will talk about terrible twos and I go, No twos are nothing twos. They're still very sweet and guileless and they're like, They're curious and they walk a lot. And it's kind of labor intensive, but I find them to be delightful when they're two. It's when they turn three that they turn like kind of more evil or Yeah, they're, they're really like testing their boundaries and, you know, figuring themselves out and enacting their voice more.

00:21:29:15 - 00:21:34:16
Jon Ekstrom
And these are all like really healthy things, but man, it's exhausting.

00:21:34:16 - 00:21:45:17
Matthew Krekeler
Not life is also is like kind of around that age too. They start to question everything. Everything is why. And you're like, Oh no, you just need to put socks on. And you're like, Why? Because it's 20 degrees outside.

00:21:46:23 - 00:22:12:16
Jon Ekstrom
Bro. I will take the Y face ten times out of ten over the insane hypothetical phase that they continue to throw me sometimes. Oh, yeah. You know, it's like. It's like, what if what if instead of a dog, this show had a Bengal tiger? I don't know. Or you know what? If I took this string and I, Daniel did out the car and then it dragged on the ground and a squirrel got it, and we dragged the squirrel.

00:22:12:16 - 00:22:46:18
Jon Ekstrom
It's like, this will never happen. What the hell are you even talking about? Like, and they're just filling the air with these insane hypotheticals that are that'll never happen because their imagination is starting to grow. But yeah, it's like, can you just maybe try being quiet for a little while back there? Like, well, we just try and drive to grab my grandpa's house, but I will say now that they're one, so they were good God, three and a half and five and a half when the pandemic hit.

00:22:48:09 - 00:23:11:05
Jon Ekstrom
And so being trapped in the house with that energy all day, every day, and you can't go anywhere. And like we say, we're better parents when we're out to. Sure, like we like taking them out. We like take them to urban area or the museum or the zoo or the park or anywhere and couldn't go anywhere. And a couple of months into that, we're all sick of each other.

00:23:12:16 - 00:23:33:02
Jon Ekstrom
So that phase was really, really taxing on me. And once we emerge from the pandemic and they're both a little bit older now and they're more self-sufficient and, you know, they can get themselves dressed. Sloan is sixth today was wearing you'll love this man was wearing her butterfly no, not her butterfly dress. Her dress. It has like watermelons on it.

00:23:33:19 - 00:23:50:08
Jon Ekstrom
And I am which is like like a like a shoulder strap dress too with Capri pants and Cyril's boots. And I go, Yeah, this, this is what you're wearing today. She goes, Yep. I go, okay, no, no, it's let's go to school. You are.

00:23:50:11 - 00:23:51:08
Matthew Krekeler
That's awesome.

00:23:51:18 - 00:24:16:19
Jon Ekstrom
You're as long as it's temperature appropriate and she put a coat on over it. You don't really regulate what they wear. Yeah, but, but now that they're this age, there are a lot of fun man. Like, they're, they're both funny and they're both, like, intelligent and they're chatty. There are a lot still, but when you're when you're kind of connecting on a different level and they're you don't have to do every single thing for them.

00:24:17:12 - 00:24:19:23
Jon Ekstrom
It's I don't know, man. It's rewarding and it's fun.

00:24:21:02 - 00:24:38:21
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, it's amazing. No surprise you in little ways. They'll pick up on phrases or different bits of humor and stuff. Oh, yeah. But you're like, where did you learn that? Like, we were at the dinner table, I think, and like we're all just kind of sitting there and my daughter, like, knocked something over and she knew that was like a big accident.

00:24:38:21 - 00:24:45:21
Matthew Krekeler
And she was just like, nobody saw that. So good to hear that. She's like that. We saw that. You didn't see.

00:24:46:21 - 00:24:48:04
Jon Ekstrom
That. That's good stuff, man.

00:24:49:09 - 00:24:55:22
Matthew Krekeler
So is there anything that your daughters like have taught you?

00:24:55:22 - 00:25:36:12
Jon Ekstrom
Oh, yeah. I mean, tons of stuff. It's it's hard to because you because they come from you just you kind of understand their point of view and what they're thinking about. And what they're kind of doing. And part of me, just because I've already been down that road and I can see where it leads, it's like, yeah, I would really encourage you to like handle this differently or do this differently or maybe this is not as important as you think it is, but the thing is like, I can't live their lives for them.

00:25:36:12 - 00:25:53:17
Jon Ekstrom
They have to make their own mistakes. And the other thing I've realized is aloof or control is an illusion. You know, like ultimately, like, that's the biggest thing where when you have kids, as much as you say, like, oh, I'm going to be a cool dad and like let them make their own mistakes and make their own choices and stuff.

00:25:54:08 - 00:26:29:00
Jon Ekstrom
It's like you still kind of have a ship to run here. Yeah. And so, you know, it's like, I do need you to bring your dishes up to the counter and do like two things. Two roles I never really wanted to have in my life were referee and cop and I am constantly both. And so I've learned I've leaned into the fact that despite how I am professionally, which is I have a real problem with authority and any boss I've ever had can tell you that, which is why I'm much better as a consultant.

00:26:29:00 - 00:26:49:07
Jon Ekstrom
As much as I have never aspired to leadership roles, I go, You know what? If I'm not in charge like there's there's a void of leadership, there's a vacuum of leadership here, too, where it's like, if I have to set a good example and I sort of have to like set the agenda of how things run here, because without it, I mean, they're not going to be set up to be good citizens.

00:26:49:07 - 00:27:11:10
Jon Ekstrom
And I've, I've told them, like, you can grow up to be anything but one thing. You're not going to grow up to be as a jerk. So like politeness is big in our house. But I'll tell you, like, even though I never aspired to leadership, they've taught me that, like, good leadership is and this is necessary, and the absence of it is much worse than the alternatives.

00:27:14:03 - 00:27:24:21
Matthew Krekeler
Now, are they at that age? Where have they, like set a goal for themselves? Like kind of the classic question, what do you want to be when you grow up? Have they talked about that?

00:27:26:02 - 00:27:33:14
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah. And it changes sometimes. Like they're still young enough to where the entire world is a possibility. Sure.

00:27:33:20 - 00:27:56:18
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. I mean, I try to expose my girls to just as many different options. Possibilities? Just like. Like I love doing this podcast to hear so many different people's stories. We had a guy on the show all four of his girls are skateboarders and nice and they get sponsored and I think the oldest is nine and she gets like sponsorship deals and stuff like that.

00:27:56:18 - 00:28:07:00
Matthew Krekeler
So it's like, you know, you could be an athlete, you know, you could be a doctor, you could be an astronaut on the show. So, yeah.

00:28:07:00 - 00:28:32:14
Jon Ekstrom
I will say we're not quite there yet. GRACE For the longest time. And I swear, like I and I've never expressed, like, displeasure with this, but like, I'm not like my problems with authority. She's like, yeah, when I grow up, I'm going to be the chief of police. And I got perfect. Like, Yeah, but then the president, well, the person's fine.

00:28:32:15 - 00:28:37:06
Jon Ekstrom
That's like one thing that's, you know, if you're doing that job correctly, that's a job.

00:28:37:12 - 00:28:41:17
Matthew Krekeler
If you're doing it correctly, but not everyone like likes the current president, you know?

00:28:41:21 - 00:28:43:05
Jon Ekstrom
Or the previous president.

00:28:43:05 - 00:28:44:04
Matthew Krekeler
Or the previous president.

00:28:44:04 - 00:29:06:02
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah. Depending on your your political point of view. But and I mean, ultimately, police are there ideally as service individuals, too. They're, you know, they're providing a service to the state and helping public safety and things like that. That's an ideal version. But then she found out police like use guns and she goes, Oh, no, I don't like that.

00:29:07:18 - 00:29:26:10
Jon Ekstrom
So I don't know what she wants to be. Now, you know, they'll talk about being an artist or being a cook. It's the things that they can see. Yeah, that, that the grab them right now. But the older you get the more you realize just how many jobs are out there. And I have an entire podcast dedicated to that.

00:29:26:22 - 00:29:39:17
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. Since you interview so many different people about what they do and I love just that approach, we're just like, come out, come at it from just this curiosity, like, aspect of like, yeah, the world is so big.

00:29:40:08 - 00:29:58:18
Jon Ekstrom
But you know what that's born out of? It's my best friend. Jason told me once. He's like, Whenever we go to a party and we're meeting someone new, I really like standing next to you because you ask them like the next interesting question, which, you know, he's like, you keep the conversation going in a really interesting way. And I go, Oh, there's something there.

00:29:59:07 - 00:30:11:12
Jon Ekstrom
And when I have a background in radio, so I go, You know what? I bet I could combine these skills because I'm just naturally curious about people. And as Americans, the first question we all ask each other is, What do you do?

00:30:12:03 - 00:30:12:22
Matthew Krekeler
Sure. Yeah.

00:30:13:08 - 00:30:19:20
Jon Ekstrom
So combining those two things like manifested in what has been a really successful show for me.

00:30:20:21 - 00:30:46:10
Matthew Krekeler
That's awesome. And then yeah, kind of the inspiration for this podcast. I think like it's specifically kind of targeted towards dads and like when my wife and I go to parties or which is rare, but when we used to have friends, we people would ask like, Well, what do you do? And it's interesting that the question was typically targeted towards me.

00:30:46:18 - 00:30:59:22
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah, especially now like that. We have kids and people know that we have kids. It's it's kind of funny. People don't always ask my wife what she does, but people just will ask me what I do. Yeah.

00:31:00:03 - 00:31:05:12
Jon Ekstrom
So that's that's the history of patriarchy in this country is summed up in just a couple of sentences right there.

00:31:06:13 - 00:31:19:06
Matthew Krekeler
So and then a lot of times we as men, as fathers, even like we often just talk about like what we're doing in terms of achievement, in terms of career, all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, it.

00:31:19:07 - 00:31:51:15
Jon Ekstrom
It's funny the way that, that works because yeah, it's like, Oh, you guys are married, what do you do? And then someone asks your wife, Hey, what about your kids? And you go, Yeah, this equation is unbalanced. Yeah. So, so what I hear you saying is you're trying to balance that equation a little bit more. And to your point, I mean, one of the things when we were talking over email was you mentioned boot camp for New Dads, which is such a phenomenal program that I brought Grace, Grace back twice as a veterans.

00:31:51:15 - 00:31:52:10
Matthew Krekeler
Awesome.

00:31:52:10 - 00:32:04:23
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah. And then I brought even I didn't need to go through the class again, but I brought Sloan back again as a veteran dad just because she was the right age for it. And then a couple of years ago, I became a certified master coach with them, so.

00:32:05:22 - 00:32:10:06
Matthew Krekeler
Oh, that's awesome. I didn't know that. That's great. Yeah, they're an amazing program.

00:32:10:23 - 00:32:18:12
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah, there's so much stuff for moms, you know, as you approach parenthood, very little for dads, it's one of the only ones. Yeah.

00:32:19:02 - 00:32:42:05
Matthew Krekeler
So just having these conversations, I really appreciate your time, but it's like I wanted to be able to have conversations that matter, you know? And it's something that we all have our own experiences as dads, but we don't always talk about. It's not always at the forefront. So I wanted to provide a space, provide a resource to have conversations.

00:32:42:05 - 00:32:53:17
Matthew Krekeler
I do this firstly just for myself. I love just getting to understand where other people are coming from. Learn as much as I can through other people's like successes and failures.

00:32:54:08 - 00:32:54:18
Jon Ekstrom
Sure.

00:32:55:07 - 00:33:23:17
Matthew Krekeler
But then it's cool to see people because oftentimes the career is like the main focus. So it's cool to see people that are doing amazing things. They're astronauts, they're race car drivers or whatever. And how do they make it work as a father in those spaces? So yeah, I'd love to have more actors on the show. Musician and all these people that, like our society, looks up to you.

00:33:24:06 - 00:33:32:23
Matthew Krekeler
But at the end of the day, it's like they would say or they should say that being a father has been like the most important thing.

00:33:33:14 - 00:33:59:06
Jon Ekstrom
Well, to that point, and I'll tell you more about this, like once we wrap, but I've got a guest idea for you. He would be perfect for this. Oh, awesome. So yeah. And he's like, he's a big time attorney, but he's got three girls in his house and they're all pretty young man. So, like, they're, I mean, one is like Sloan's age, one is, I think, or now, and the other one is like one.

00:33:59:06 - 00:34:17:08
Jon Ekstrom
And yeah, I mean, he and I like bond over the fact that we're girl dads all get together. It's our family and his family and it's the two of us. And then how many is it's like seven women, you know, two women and five girls. But, you know, we love it. It's great.

00:34:17:16 - 00:34:21:11
Matthew Krekeler
Yeah. So what is your favorite part about being a girl, Dad?

00:34:23:08 - 00:34:36:07
Jon Ekstrom
I think it's honestly, I think it's almost to be I hesitate saying this, but it's the underdog aspect of it because.

00:34:36:07 - 00:34:37:19
Matthew Krekeler
Oh, I totally would agree with that. Yeah.

00:34:38:05 - 00:34:59:18
Jon Ekstrom
It's been a man's world for so long that if you can help shape and mold like cool, strong, self-assured, powerful women, then, you know, when they're girls and if they have like good male role models and they have like good female role models, like my wife, you can change the world that way. And that's not to say both dads aren't.

00:34:59:18 - 00:35:22:14
Jon Ekstrom
Boy, dad's a really, really important you know, you need to teach boy dads really, really important values. But there's something about raising girls that it almost feels like an underdog fight. And I kind of like that. It's it's really fun. And as the world changes, men hopefully you mold them to take a bigger piece of it for themselves and for girls everywhere.

00:35:23:17 - 00:35:24:00
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah.

00:35:24:07 - 00:35:46:23
Matthew Krekeler
That's awesome. Like, now, obviously, my dad was a boy. Dad. I'm sure my parents just had two boys. They're just my self and my brother and I'm so grateful for what my parents taught me and how they raised me to be like, I'm the man that I am. And, you know, I always treat women very respectfully and always hold the value of women so high.

00:35:47:05 - 00:36:11:15
Matthew Krekeler
So I think part of that, too, is like why I now have that like appreciation for women and like, you know, protecting women and wanting to be polite, you know, to be a gentleman. Yeah, all of those things. And I love to model that chivalry to my wife and then like to my girls now. But then now it's like raising young women.

00:36:11:15 - 00:36:28:17
Matthew Krekeler
It's like I want them to grow up and be accepted, to be embraced by a culture that loves them, treats them with dignity. And, you know, sky's the limit for, like, what I hope that they can, like, set off to do and change the world for the better.

00:36:29:03 - 00:36:49:00
Jon Ekstrom
Well, so, Matthew, representation matters, right? If you can see it, you can see it. And so we try and expose our to as many different types of women as possible. And so that's like one of their favorite bands right now is this band called The Interrupters, which is like a punk ska band, but with a female lead singer.

00:36:49:00 - 00:37:05:10
Jon Ekstrom
And so, like, she's rocking out just as hard as the boys. So if you see that and you see athletes, you see chefs and I'm a woman I used to work with, became a police officer. So it's like, hey, can you come over here like wearing a police uniform and talk to Grace about what that is?

00:37:05:10 - 00:37:05:23
Matthew Krekeler
That's awesome.

00:37:06:04 - 00:37:18:19
Jon Ekstrom
You know, female firefighters, female leaders in business, just exposing them to this whole world so that they don't feel bound by anything. And if you can do that, man, you're doing good work, in my view.

00:37:19:10 - 00:37:34:16
Matthew Krekeler
And then, yeah, in just the final couple of minutes, I ask all my guests this and I want to give you an opportunity. Pretend like you're speaking to your daughters directly. Maybe in the future they'll listen to this. What is one thing that you would like to tell Grace and Sloan?

00:37:35:16 - 00:37:58:20
Jon Ekstrom
So the guiding philosophy of our entire house, and you've heard us say this a billion times, is work hard and be nice to people. Nothing good comes without hard work. I mean, again, like luck certainly plays a role. But if you work hard and if you're nice to people, this is a small town. I mean, ultimately Denver's a big city.

00:37:58:20 - 00:38:23:15
Jon Ekstrom
But if you're doing things of filming and things of importance, then you will crisscross with people again and again and again. So as long as you work hard and be nice to people, if you take those two maxims with you from us and from just basically existing in this world, then I feel like I've succeeded. So work hard and be nice to people.

00:38:23:15 - 00:38:33:18
Matthew Krekeler
Awesome. Yeah, I think that applies to so many aspects to life. I think like I look around the people that I love working with and it's like, Yeah, you do good work.

00:38:34:11 - 00:38:46:21
Jon Ekstrom
And and you're fun to work with. Yeah. Like it doesn't mean we have to be friends, but like if we're working well together, you know, if we're polite and we're cordial at worst, then we're doing good stuff.

00:38:48:08 - 00:38:53:12
Matthew Krekeler
Well, thank you so much. That wraps up like this main interview. I really appreciate your time.

00:38:54:00 - 00:39:09:17
Jon Ekstrom
Yeah, happy to be here, Matthew. Thank you for the opportunity.

00:39:09:17 - 00:39:31:18
Matthew Krekeler
Thank you to Jon Ekstrom for sharing his journey and being part of Girl Dad Nation. Check out the links in the description for more of his content hearing stories like his and remembering my own experience. First, Becoming a father is a good reminder of the gift that fatherhood and each new life is. As my girls grow and start asking more what ifs, I hope they never lose that wonder and imagination.

00:39:32:08 - 00:39:50:04
Matthew Krekeler
Thank you for journeying with me. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please let me know by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing the show with a friend. Girl Dad Nation is on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. You can also email me at girldadnationpodcast@gmail.com. There is no greater joy than being a dad.